Supernatural episode 5.05 Fallen Idols aired this last Thursday on the CW Network and as I said in my sneak peek posting, it is the episode with the most controversial guest star the series has ever had: Paris Hilton. Yet in watching Fallen Idols, for this reviewer, her presence as a guest star wasn’t the most controversial thing to come out of the episode. I had a lot of issues with the interactions between Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles).
However before I go into my review of Supernatural episode 5.05 Fallen Idols, lets take the usual look around the fandom first and see what’s been going on.
There seems to be a mixed perception between some fans of the hit series and the CW Network of how well Supernatural season 5 is doing. The CW Network is still ecstatic about the veteran action series’ overall performance coupled with its new lead in show, The Vampire Diaries. The CW released the following stats on Friday October 9th, which was the day after the airing of Fallen Idols:
VAMPIRE DIARIES and SUPERNATURAL Make It Another Killer Thursday For The CW With Double-Digit Year-To-Year Growth Across Key Demos SUPERNATURAL Up Year-To-Year in Adults and Women 18-34. SUPERNATURAL grew 8% year-to-year in both adults 18-34 (1.4/4) and women 18-34 (1.3/3).
Sounds like a good thing to them, but Brian over at supernatural-web.net seems to think otherwise and published this statement urging fans and viewers to take action and sign a petition.
“We’re sick and tired of the way, our favorite TV-Show, Supernatural is being treated. We get the minimum of promotion and losing viewers every week. Instead of taking chances and finally starting some promotion TheCW keeps on promoting shows, which don’t seem to have a future. If you want Supernatural to get its deserved ratings, please sign up.”
I would love to hear from Supernatural viewers and fans on this concept that Brian has put forth about the promotion of Supernatural. Do you agree or disagree with the lack of promotion. Do you think a petition is the way to go?
Looking towards another issue and one that has my full backing and I think other viewers and fans might want to get behind as well is the one laid out by Clif Kosterman. Clif, as many of you know, not only guest starred in the Supernatural season 2 episode Folsom Prison Blues as the inmate named Tiny, he has also since become the bodyguard for series leads Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki. On his Facebook page Clif has made the following statement on October 6 at 1:31pm, which he has kindly granted me permission to pass the word along:
“Ok Spn Superfans. It’s time for all of us to put a push on the Emmy’s. “The End” was a fantastic episode and we need to get some recognition for our boys. So get on it and get us an Emmy….lol”
While I’m not sure that “The End” is the episode that all the fans and viewers will want to rally around for an Emmy push, those who agree with Clif or just want to see the series overall and the lead actors Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles get Emmy recognition can start the push by going to the official Emmy Contact site or the official Emmy Twitter account.
And speaking of twitter, the last little fandom round up item concerns a statement issued by One Tree Hill actress Danneel Harris on her Twitter account at 4:40 PM Oct 9th from her API after she and some of her followers were bombarded with nasty rhetoric from a twitter account impersonating Supernatural actor Jensen Ackles:
“Jensen and Jared do not have Twitter accounts. They are fake. Sorry guys.”
As I see it, its appreciated that Danneel Harris took the time to call out the faker for what they are and she has no need to apologize for outing fakers who talk trash under the guise of Jensen Ackles or Jared Padalecki’s names.
Now on to the recap.
Before I go in-depth into my recap of 5.05 episode Fallen Idols, written by Julie Siege and directed by Jim Conway, I would like to mention the following facts as an aside to the episode. I live only 45 minutes away from Canton, Ohio, which is a thriving city that is home to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the William McKinley Memorial and The First Ladies’ Library. There however is no Wax Museum in Canton Ohio. Canton Ohio has a highly organized and multi-divisional police department, which includes its own CSI unit, homicide division and an Administrative division of the FBI not to mention a nearby police academy. There is no sheriff’s department. While I fully understand the concept of creative license and such, I just felt it was important to put that out there.
Another issue I feel compelled to address that is bothering me because of what I perceive to be an inaccuracy is one that seems to be perpetuated by everyone associated with the series. It has to do with that controversial guest star herself and is something which I think is doing a disservice to her and the work she did in Fallen Idols and a disservice to the storyline that was put forth as well.
Contrary to numerous statements to this affect, Paris Hilton was not *playing herself* in the Supernatural 5.05 episode Fallen Idols any more than Abraham Lincoln, James Dean or Gandhi were playing themselves. Paris Hilton hasn’t kidnapped anyone or tried to eat them or plant seeds in them (as far as we know and I’m not going to go into the issue of whether or not Hilton has tied handsome men to trees. Though I’m sure we would have read about it in the tabloids if she had!). In fairness and respect to her as an actress, it should be recognized that just like any other guest star in the series, Paris Hilton took on a role of a character outside of herself as a person. In Fallen Idols Hilton was playing an ancient pagan god who was taking the form of famous icons who are worshipped by their fans and one of the icons the ancient god impersonated was a celebrity named Paris Hilton.
In honesty and reality what Paris Hilton did in this episode was actually far more complicated than ‘playing herself’ and whether you are fan of hers or not, Hilton still deserves recognition for that. She had to convincingly play a character who was only pretending to look like Paris Hilton but was actually someone totally different: an arrogant entity that was disdainful that some mere mortal, whose only claim to being idolized was that she gets written about in the tabloids was getting the adulation the ancient god once gotten. Hilton wasn’t ‘making fun of herself’ either, she was actually being a very serious actor playing the role of an entity who, like a lot of people, was disdainful of Paris Hilton for being idolized for what seemed like nothing more relevant than being sensationalized in the media for being rich and beautiful. Hilton did a passable job of playing this character and at the same time allowing her image to be used as part of a social commentary on society’s fascination with the rich and famous and yet how necessary it is for any actor/celebrity to have fans support to feed off of in order to be ‘kept alive’ in their profession.
So like I said, whether you like her or not, Paris Hilton didn’t just cruise through this episode doing something as easy as ‘playing herself’. She did a fairly credible job of taking on the role of another persona altogether and, in my opinion, is something that should be recognized as such.
I have to admit that this episode is not going to go down as one of my favorites and certainly in my perspective hasn’t been on par with the level of excellence we’ve seen so far in season 5. I have to say in all honesty that for me its because of the writing by Julie Siege that showed, in my opinion, a basic lack of understanding of the history of the series and the characters. On a technical level many of scenes were just too abrupt and the dialog too glib for even Dean. But not all of the bad can be laid on Siege. The episode itself seemed to me to be choppy and unevenly paced under the direction of Jim Conway. I got the overall feeling of the lead actors Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki being yanked around from one scene to the next in a hurried manner with minimal focus on secondary characters.
To be fair, Siege did in some instances do well in capturing the characters of Sam and Dean Winchester and there were several key moments that really stand out. Dean practically turning into a giddy little boy over the idea that he might actually be setting eyes on James Dean’s infamous car “Little Bastard”. Having us the viewers and the fans being shown that for all he has been though, Dean still has that kind of innocence left in him. His little boy love for fast cars, was endearing. Of course what I have been left wondering is if the Impala has fully forgiven Dean for calling another car “baby”.
We got to see that for all he has been through, Sam is still the same in many ways and seeing him falling into the familiar pattern of research and his innate sense of being able to empathize with others was very gratifying. However the whole Gandhi thing just had a false ring to it as if where shoved into the story for the sake of wanting a reason to have a “killer Gandhi’” show up to use for comedic value. It just didn’t resonate with me and maybe I imagined what I saw, but in my perspective even Padalecki and Ackles seemed to have had a hard time “selling it” to the audience. Not that I think Sam wouldn’t admire someone like Gandhi, but that he would idolize him to such an extent that it would attract the attention of Leshi. All of Dean’s reactions to Sam’s idolizing Gandhi seemed forced and out of place as well.
Herein of course lies the crux of the biggest issue I had with this episode and keeps me from really liking it as much as the previous episodes of season 5. None of the key “brother moments” meshed or felt right to me. This had nothing to do with any thing on the part of Jensen Ackles or Jared Padalecki in their performances of the material they were giving, but had everything to do with how that material was written. As a viewer of Supernatural since the beginning of the show, I just felt like neither Julie Siege or anyone else in the writer’s room took the time to make sure what they were having the characters of Dean and especially Sam saying in this episode didn’t go against what we as the viewers and what the fans have already been told and shown. Sam Winchester, whom many have been waiting to have his moment and his say to Dean, was in my opinion really short-changed and ill-used in this episode. The moment he finally deserved was marred by the inconsistency of what was written for him.
Sam tells Dean that he went off with Ruby to get away from Dean so that Sam could feel like a grown up. As a “deangirl” my immediate response to that was “what the heck, weren’t we just told by Sam back in season 4’s I Know What You Did Last Summer’ that he turned to Ruby out of grief over missing Dean?”. Not only that, but Dean wasn’t even around when Sam made that initial decision to go off with Ruby and let her lead him around: Dean was in hell making good on his deal. In Fallen Idols the writers have Sam telling Dean that he needs to let Sam grow up and be on a more equal playing field, seeming to forget that Dean spent almost all of the strike shortened season 3 of Supernatural trying to show Sam he needed to be able to handle things on his own. What was that scene at the end of Fresh Blood all about when Dean hands over the care of the Impala to Sam and allows him to learn how to deal with fixing the car when Dean is gone if not to allow Sam to grow up and be an adult?
What were all those scenes in season two of Dean standing up to his hero John Winchester to side with Sam about the visions and the way they work together as team all about if not to acknowledge that Sam is an equal when it counts? How can Sam expect Dean to treat him like an adult after Lazarus Rising and Dean isn’t even out of Hell and back with Sam a day and Sam choose to run off with Ruby over looking out for his brother who has fallen asleep trusting Sam would be there to watch over him.
I understand that its possible the writers and the series creator Eric Kripke have come to realize that maybe they should have given Sam more justification for his actions in season 4 and his secretive behavior because a lot of fans and us viewers felt like we and Sam got cheated out his storyline by so much being hidden and left unsaid. But creating a scenario where Sam’s justification for following Ruby flies against the face of everything that we were told and shown before regarding Dean trying to allow Sam to grow up and be stronger on his own, isn’t in my opinion doing the character of Sam Winchester any favors. Plus all I can think of is what Sera Gamble said in an interview done at the 2009 Comic con where she stated that it’s sort of the nature of the storyline to show Sam Winchester failing every time he attempts to make his own decisions or be given a chance to be an equal. I can’t help but wonder what that means in regards to what we saw in Fallen Idols: are they just setting Sam Winchester up for the fall again? I hope not. He deserves better than a constant rehash and the viewers/fans deserve better as well. I hope the writers and the creator’s do better than this.
Next week is episode 5.06 of Supernatural entitled “I Believe The Children Are Our Future” and Castiel comes back into the mix. To protect the spoilerphobes, I will be doing a sneak peek and speculation on that episode in a different posting. The episode will air on the CW Network on October 15th at 9PM EST right after The Vampire Diaries.
In regards to Sam telling Dean that he went off with Ruby to get away from Dean so that Sam could feel like a grown up, I'm pretty sure the writers were specifically referring to Sam leaving with Ruby in 'When The Levee Breaks'. If you'll go back and re-watch that scene right before the big Sam-and-Dean fight, that's exactly what they were arguing about; Sam told Dean to stop bossing him around, mentioned that Dean's always been the one to call the shots, etc. As for Dean preparing Sam to be on his own in season 3, that was only because Dean thought he wasn't going to be around, but once Dean made it back from Hell, he resumed his role as the leader who makes the decisions. As far as continuity goes, I don't think it really matters who writes the episode; it's not going to pass final muster if it isn't compliant. I thought the writers of this ep did a fine job with that.
I certainly hope the writers are not referring to WTLB only. That makes Sam look even worse, in my opinion.
Sam was still an addict at that time. He felt Dean was "bossing him around" but Dean was merely trying to point out that Ruby did NOT have Sam's best intentions at heart. She was poison. Dean asked Sam to leave with him, but just the two of them. Sam felt Dean was trying to tell him what to do, but Dean was trying to get Sam away from Ruby, his drug source. Dean refused to go as a "tag-along" with Sam and Ruby, not because Dean wanted to call the shots, but because Dean did not trust Ruby and wanted her away from Sam. If Sam *still* feels Dean was being "bossy" there, especially knowing now that Ruby's intentions were to get Sam to do what she need him to do, then I think that is truly horrible of Sam to think this! Dean was concerned about Sam and feared for his safety.
And Sam has called the shots just as much as Dean has in their partnership. I can think of episodes like Skin, Home, Faith, Nightmare, Croatoan, just off the top of my head as examples where SAM took the lead, and insisted they work the case. In Scarecrow and Time is on My Side, Dean wanted to go one way, Sam wanted to go another, and they both went their own way.
And Dean certainly had no control over Sam's actions at all last season. As has been shown before, Dean offers his opinion and POV, but Sam does what he wants to do anyway. I agree that Sam needs to be allowed to grow up and take responsibility for his actions, but that means that SAM has to work on changing his behavior as well, not only Dean. And all I saw in this episode was Dean changing his ways and Dean apologizing for his behavior toward Sam, and it needs to be a two-way street.
What you're talking about there are normal, human flaws in the characters. These characters aren't perfect (no one is) and the writers, in my opinion, do a good job of creating realistic, living, breathing characters, flaws and all.
Sam has made errors in judgment; Dean has made errors in judgment. That's part of what makes them so real to us, the viewers. In this episode, especially, I thought the writers did a good job of saying just that. Dean admits that he's just as guilty as Sam because he broke the first seal; he admits that Sam couldn't have known the consequences of killing Lilith. Sam admits that he sometimes feels like nothing more than Dean's 'kid brother', which has been an ongoing and recurring theme since season one (and something that's extremely common in 'real life' among siblings.)
Sure, sometimes Dean has let Sam call the shots, but more often, they have to argue about something before Dean will concede to Sam's judgment (which again, is not always the best, but Dean's isn't always the best either.) But the show has shown us time and again that they always do better when they keep each other in check; this episode was a perfect example of that and of what Sam was trying to say. Dean thought the case was over and was ready to go, but Sam knew something was still wrong.
I expect that as long as this show is on the air with these characters, they will sometimes show character weaknesses and flaws. Will the characters ever be 'perfect'? I sincerely hope not, because then they would be far less interesting.
"And Sam has called the shots just as much as Dean has in their partnership."
Only when it has been established that, for whatever reason, Dean is incapable or refusing to do it himself. Skin–it was Sam's friend. Home–it was Sam's visions and Dean's reluctance to go back home. Nightmare–again, it was Sam's visions and Dean's reluctance to give credit to them. Croatoan–same as "Nightmare"; Sam's visions/dreams, Dean's refusal to believe them. Sam's only stepped up a few times and "pushed/forced" his opinion to make them work a case, and once he's actually proven there is a case, he once again fades into the woodwork.
I also think everyone is forgetting the first what, four episodes this year, where Sam has done nothing BUT APOLOGIZE. He apologized TO DEAN. TO BOBBY. TO THE WORLD. TO DEAN. TO DEAN. TO THE WORLD. TO BOBBY. I mean, really, he even apologized to the hunters that tried to kill him. Seriously? Sam needs to apologize? Fandom at large, pls to be yanking your head out of Dean's nethers and realize Sam's been doing nothing BUT apologizing, and yes, it is PAST TIME for Dean to pony up a few "I'm sorry" of his own.
As far as Dean being bossy, this is something that Sam has thought… probably forever, but he voiced it as far back as "Playthings" when he was drunk and uninhibited. "You're bossy…. and short." Dean has probably been an overbearing big brother for the entirety of Sam's life, and certainly in the last year or so when he's found out about Sam's abilities and what he was doing to maintain and increase them. I don't think Sam was right, by any means–c'mon, drinking demon blood can never end well–but at the same time, Dean was so focused and so big-brother-bossy about "LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I KNOW BETTER" that he never once had a candid conversation with Sam about what was going on, how he was feeling, or anything else like that. It was always a screaming match with Sam asking for help– "I'm a whole new level of freak!"–and Dean always going "If I didn't know you, I would want to hunt you." They've both got issues to work out, and I think Dean and Sam both need to work them out.
"Only when it has been established that, for whatever reason, Dean is incapable or refusing to do it himself."
Not true. Dean did not refuse to go on the cases in Skin, Home, Nightmare, or Croatoan. My point is they both find cases, not only Dean. And there are times when Dean goes along with what Sam wants, when Dean rides along with Sam while he steers the ship.
"I also think everyone is forgetting the first what, four episodes this year, where Sam has done nothing BUT APOLOGIZE."
Sam has apologized for the apocalypse, which is something Dean kept telling him he didn't have to apologize for. Dean takes equal responsibility for that. Sam admitted trusting Ruby was his fault, although he felt Dean was to blame for this as well. But Sam hasn't yet apologized for his own behavior which led to him trusting Ruby, and hurting and betraying Dean's trust in him.
"it is PAST TIME for Dean to pony up a few "I'm sorry" of his own."
Dean has apologized to Sam for his behavior in WTLB, for his behavior in The End, and in FI for his current *and* past (last season) behavior toward Sam. Dean admitted that he was wrong and that he will "be whatever Sam needs him to be."
"and Dean always going "If I didn't know you, I would want to hunt you.""
ONCE is always? And Dean does know Sam, so obviously he doesn't want to hunt him. But other hunters don't know Sam and Dean is concerned about those other hunters. Sam has called Dean a freak (Pilot) and Dean has called himself a freak as well. They do both have issues to work out, I agree. That's why I appreciated Dean saying that he would be "whatever [Sam] needed him to be" while acknowledging that his behavior toward Sam was wrong and that he was sorry. I'm just waiting for Sam to do the same, that's all.
I would totally nominate The End for an Emmy. Jensen was fantastic in the dual role.
Great review and ITA that Sam's "reason" of running off with Ruby to get away from Dean did the character of Sam a real disservice to Sam in that it seems rather petty for Sam to throw it in Dean's face given how deeply betrayed Dean felt about Sam choosing her over him. It was also kind of a slap int he face to the Dean who has cared for, loved and comforted Sam his whole life. It does also smell of blame-shifting to me even if Sam claims otherwise. He demands Dean change but seems completely unaware that he doesn't treat Dean perfectly either. There are so many more interesting reasons to focus on than one that boils down to "you're not the boss of me."
I certainly hope this is not the end and that we do see Sam, as well as Dean, actually working to be a better brother. However, I'm not sure he realizes yet that simply not lying and sneaking off, is all that it takes on his part. If he wants Dean to stop treating him like a little brother, he also has to stop acting like one. Thatt means he can't expect to be able to go running to his big brother whenever he wants, which is exactly what he did.
I have to admit that this episode was very disappointing from a brother perspective though the MOW part was great fun despite several glaring plot holes. Not nearly the same standard of script as the first four of the series and even most of the episodes in season 4.
I would definitely get behind The End. It was a really well written episode in my opinion and the acting was terrific, Jensen in particular did a fantastic job in duel role. 🙂
As for this episode, I agree so much. I felt like they were trying to ret-con the whole series with that whole "you need to let me grow up/you're not the boss of me" thing. Not only did it make Sam look incredibly petty and childish but it doesn't even fit up with what they showed us in the 4 previous seasons.
In Season 1, one of the reasons Sam, in Dead Man's Blood, was angry was because he liked the PARTNERSHIP he and Dean had while hunting and when John showed up he was afraid they were going to go right back to what it had been like before, with Dad barking out orders and them being expected to follow without question. He liked working with Dean precisely BECAUSE Dean is not a bossy control freak like their father, yet listening to this you'd think Dean had spent the last 4 years holding Sam on a short leash, forcing poor Sam to do thinks against his will and never ever letting him have a say in anything. It made Dean sound like some sort of dictator when he's been anything but a dictator.
They've taken cases Sam has found, they followed information Sam has found, they took actions Sam figured out – equally to following Dean's There have been plenty of times when Dean's had to follow in Sam's wake(I'm thinking, for example, of the end of Hunted where Sam said to Dean, well I guess if you're going to protect me, you have to do what I want, and right after that – they stayed where Sam wanted to for three weeks looking for Ava, and last season when Dean was supposedly being so "bossy" I can think of a number of occasions when Sam ordered Dean around – there are plenty of other occasions when Sam insisted and Dean went along)
Dean has occasionally cracked a joke about knowing better because he's the older brother, but those instances are very few and far between and besides which Dean also made it even more apparently on many occasions that he believes Sam is intelligent and capable. Besides, when Dean is 90 and Sam is 86, Sam is still going to be the little brother. Sorry that's how siblingship works Sam, deal with it like everyone else in the world who is a sibling, the majority of them manage to do so with good humor and appreciation. There are plenty of disadvantages to being the older sibling too, and Dean certainly suffered much more heartily than most older siblings under his..
So in my opinion the entire situation was a false construct, with Dean behaving almost entirely out of character("ordering" Sam to do research? Taking off in the middle of a case to go hang out at a bar and flirt with a waitress? Dean flirts WHILE he's working sometimes but he never just stops working in the middle of the day for the heck of it.)
It seemed created simply to enable Sam to say certain things, despite them not even fitting in with what we've seen in previous seasons. It felt like they were re-writing the whole series in this episode.
I agree with all of this. My feeling about why Dean was out of character was because Dean is still mad and hurt at Sam. And since Sam likes to do research why not let him do it. Not Dean's best moment, however I think it make sense in context.
This episode did seem like a recon of alot of the series with Dean and Sam's relationship.
Oh please, every Deangirl ill think it's stupid and every samgirl will think it's not, from what i can see. Yet, i am deangirl, but I totally agree with what Sam said. We always knew much more about what Dean was feeling, how he has sacrificed, how he loves his family, how he takes care of Sam, and Sam was ungrateful one, who when rebelled was wrong. If Dean yelled or hit him, that was justified, or he was hiding his pain, if Sam did it, he was on his way to becoming evil. So, we really, REALLY needed to see Sam's point of view, and he was right. Dean was always in charge when they were together, or if Dean let him, it was because he let him and assumed his leadership back when he wanted. I loved Dean more, but at one point even I was sick of how he was treating Sam, and always right and Sam never said his crucial points, and I'm glad this episode started changing that. Dean's character is much better also when he is better to Sam, so no complaints here.
MR – Thanks for the review. I agree with you that the brother scenes were not well written, I think both characters were short-changed. As a SamGirl, I'm glad Sam said that Dean needed to stop treating him like a little brother, however, that's as much of the argument I liked. Even to me, the arguments didn't seem balanced.
I've seen this posted on other sites, and I agree with it – it seems the writers knew what they wanted Sam to say in those scenes and knew they wanted the brothers to reconcile in the end, so they wrote the rest of the brother interactions around those ending scenes, including the characterization. I think both Sam and Dean were written to the extreme, almost out of character, in this episode just so they could get Sam to the point of saying what he did about growing up. I just wish they would have added some lines about Sam talking about changing his own behaviour, so that it was more balanced. Maybe we'll get that in a future episode, but I think it needed to be said in this one.
Interesting, when am acts like an ass it's all on Sam's shoulder but when Dean does it, it's the writers' fault?
Is this perhaps because Padalecki is able to act the part while Ackles needs scenes especially written for him?
Nuff said.
Actually Celia, Sera Gamble (as one example) has stated several times that the writers are very grateful for Jensen being able to "make it work" when they know that certain scenes as written are just not up to par. So no, Ackles does not necessarily need specific dialog to convey Dean's feelings, or as you say, "act the part." And the writers of Supernatural are aware of Jensen's ability to use non-verbal acting to convey his emotions. "Jensen get's it." [Sera Gamble in the AHBL1 DVD commentary].
Also, for your interest perhaps, is this statement of Jensen's acting from TV Tropes.com (Television Tropes and Idioms):
"He's one of those actors where you can throw anything at him from an acting challenge point of view; you can shoot him, tie him up, torture him, dumb him down, make him all bloody and bruised, wring the emo from him and generally have him flung against a hard, inanimate object nearly every episode and he'll eat it up with a spoon and knock it out of the park every damn time. "
And finally, I don't know why you feel it's necessary to criticize one actor merely to prop up your preferred actor.
MR I totally agree with your view and thank you for stating it. I was unpleasantly surprised by how many reviewers missed the imbalance of Sam's 'confession". I don't think Sam was referring to When The Levee Breaks when he said that. He was referring to Dean and their relationship, and like you, I can't agree with Sam's words. He truly is denying himself the right to grow up by still blaming Dean for everything that Sam's done. It's quite amazing that Sam can't be allowed to grow up because he will never be allowed to have faults that are his own.
His excuse that he went with Ruby because Dean was bossy is laughable after Sam's behavior in season 4.
Celia, I think you've missed the whole message in your desire to defend Sam/Jared. Nobody said Dean never acts the ass, but certainly not to the extent this episode has shown, where Dean was totally out of charcter so Sam could be justified is saying what he did. And Sam coming off as a self-centered brat does seem to show Jared's talent very well. But insulting Jensen because you don't like the review is quite immature.
I think Julie Siege did both brothers and both actors a great injustice. Instead of keeping Dean's and Sam's growth, she had them regress back 4 years. I guess all those fans that wanted the show to be just like it was in season 1 got their wish. The brothers are back together, and the growth they had acquired has been effectively destroyed. We're back to needy, doormat Dean and smug, snobbish Sam. Great job Kripke, At this rate, I'm sure Dean will be wiping Sam's shoes while Sam puts on his super cape.
I agree with your opinion on the episode, M.R. I was very disappointed by Julie Siege because I've enjoyed her other episodes. But this one was a mess from beginning to end (except, ironically enough, for Paris Hilton, who I thought did a pretty good job).
This episode didn't do either of the brothers any favors, but I felt Sam came off much worse. That he actually used the excuse he just wanted to "get away" from Dean and that was a reason for him choosing Ruby, is just horribly disappointing. And lets not forget that when Sam started up with Ruby, Dean was DEAD. Not quite sure what Sam was getting away from then? Sam has show that he has a tendency to be single-minded about revenge, as he showed yet again at the beginning of the episode regarding finding the Colt. It seems he hasn't changed.
And it isn't up to Dean to allow Sam to grow up. It's up to Sam to actually grow up. I don't know how Sam can possibly blame Dean for his overprotective behavior after Sam spent all of last season feeling that he was *right* to be with Ruby, use his powers, drink demon blood, and allow an innocent woman to be killed for her blood. Those are things that "all grown up" Sam did, despite Dean's warnings that Ruby wasn't to be trusted. But Sam apparently felt he was right to get away from his "bossy" big brother and that was all that mattered.
I appreciate Dean recognizing that his big-brother behavior may not be conducive to a partnership Sam appreciates, so he apologized for it. And Dean also apologized for not recognizing how his behavior got in the way of him seeing Sam's demise before it was too late. Bravo to Dean for recognizing the changes he nees to make and for apologizing to Sam again, but I don't see, especially in light of Sam's declaration that he wants to be responsible for his own actions, how Sam could agree with Dean's apology. It's not Dean's job to watch over Sam.
Now, it would be nice to see Sam apologize for his own behavior of last season and how his actions (trusting a demon over his brother, not respecting Dean by calling him weak, and trying to choke him to death). Dean is the only one who apologized to Sam about his actions/words of WTLB and Dean is the only one who has apologized for how his own behavior affected and hurt Sam. So yeah, there's quite an imbalance in the brother's relationship right now, and one that I need to be corrected in order for me to feel that this is truly an equal partnership.
Dean apologizing? Dean recognizing? What channel are you watching?
Dean did apologized, it was apperant to most viewers.
Re: petition…I agree the show needs a lot more publicity from the network, but a fan petition is not going to work, especially when it's not well-written, as this one shows. Sorry, but that's how I see it, which is why I haven't signed it.
I also agree that this last episode was not up to the standard the previous ones were. I don't know where the fault should lie. Not with Padalecki and Ackles because, no matter what they are given to do, they do it perfectly well. I tend to go with the writers and those who should have been making sure the continuity from past episodes/seasons be maintained. This won't be a favorite episode for me, and in fact, may very well be one of the least favorite ones of the entire series.
MR I totally agree with your view and thank you for stating it. I was unpleasantly surprised by how many reviewers missed the imbalance of Sam's 'confession". I don't think Sam was referring to When The Levee Breaks when he said that. He was referring to Dean and their relationship, and like you, I can't agree with Sam's words. He truly is denying himself the right to grow up by still blaming Dean for everything that Sam's done. It's quite amazing that Sam can't be allowed to grow up because he will never be allowed to have faults that are his own.
Hey MR!
I agree with pretty much everything you've said, the writing of this one was terribly sub-par, with the only goal being to manouver Sam into make that dreadful little speech at the end.
I also think you're being overly generous with Hilton. I think she believes she's a minor goddess in her own right, but she was adequate in this role, and seeing her severed head on the ground was made of win.
As for an Emmy for Jensen Ackles, sign me up! He's always been overlooked and I wish that "academy" would open their eyes and finally realise how great he is.
MR Reed said: "Plus all I can think of is what Sera Gamble said in an interview done at the 2009 Comic con where she stated that it’s sort of the nature of the storyline to show Sam Winchester failing every time he attempts to make his own decisions or be given a chance to be an equal. I can’t help but wonder what that means in regards to what we saw in Fallen Idols: are they just setting Sam Winchester up for the fall again? I hope not. He deserves better than a constant rehash and the viewers/fans deserve better as well. I hope the writers and the creator’s do better than this."
AMEN. The constant back-and-forth has gone past being tiring. If this is supposed to be Sam's (and Dean's, but more so Sam's) year for redemption and to prove himself worthy not only to Dean but to himself, then the writers are going about it ass-backwards. This show – while it has its humorous moments (Dean fangirling over Little Bastard was hilarious), fell far short. If this really is the show's last season, there is a lot of work to be done both for the brothers' relationship and for their own well being.
And put me in line for Jensen Ackes for an Emmy for The End, and (if only) Jared Padalecki for When the Levee Breaks. Both guys deserve a lot more recognition than they get!
Jared deserves an Enmmy nom at least for his magnificent portrayal of Lucifer. He made the whole episode for me.
True, he really does!
I agree with the Emmy petition – which is more than deserved – but only if it is for the TWO of them. Jared has been doing a fine work for a long time but for some reason he is always underrated, even by Show fans. One of the reasons why this Show succeeded the way it did is that it counts with TWO fantastic actors as leads.
I have been a fan of Supernatural from the beginning as well and I have to say it…. I completely disagree with this review as it relates to what happened between Sam, Ruby and Dean….In the interest of time, maybe you just need to re-watch the entire show again. I can't possibly explain every episode to you when we are this far along. Also, Paris Hilton was exactly herself. They tried to make her play a pagan god, but if you watched the episode, she was nothing more than her pitiful self.
I'd say Marla is showing that she has watched and actually paid attention to the past episodes of the show, unlike a lot of fans who only see what they want to see(Sam the eternal victim, Dean the horrible tyrant — apparently just for having his own opinion and not stroking Sam's ego, playing the "good little wife" to Sam's big strong hubby and letting Sam think all the good ideas are his own).
They tried to re-write the whole back story of the series with this episode, it has almost no basis in reality and it made Sam look like a first class prat who still refuses to take responsibility for his own actions by trying to fob it off on his brother. It's not the first time they've done it but it is certainly the most extensive. Another small example was Season 3's Fresh Blood where Sam claimed to always know Dean was just faking it as a kid, when all of Season 1 was based on Sam realizing he had been "fooled" by Dean's grown up and "tough" act all throughout their childhood.
But they disregarded a major part of his first season journey just because they wanted Sam to seem like such a super insightful and wise brother to ask Dean to go back to his normal behavior(which was that of Sam's brother) – funny how now Sam claims Dean's normal behavior is so bossy and tyranical it drove him straight into the arms of a demon, even when Dean was DEAD and in Hell.
So which is it ,Sam? Is it any wonder Dean gets confused, when Sam seems to want all the benefits of being a little brother while having everyone pay lip service to the idea that he is a big capable strong man who is the equal or even superior to people who have had to be grown up all the time.
Sam has spent 4 seasons saying to Dean "I can handle it I can handle it" and then when he was expected to handle it, coming running back looking for Dean as soon as things got a little tough. The sad thing is Dean took him at his word – he'd step back, or he'd try to let Sam "share the load" only to have Sam blame him for either the load being too heavy OR like now, claiming Dean didn't do exactly what Dean did do.
Dean found out Sam was sneaking around with a demon and lying to him – well within a couple days, Dean was apologizing and out of Sam's hair about it and willing to believe Sam when he said he was giving it up. When Sam went back on his word and started using the powers again, Dean didn't say a word of criticism towards him. He just let it go, let Sam handle it how he saw fit. When Sam "bossed" him around in episodes like Wishful Thinking, Dean didn't argue. He even seemed to be trying to accept the idea(parts of I Know What you Did Last Summer and Heaven and Hell), up to and including Sam's untrustworthy demonic buddy Ruby. All for Sam's sake. Throughout the season Dean shared everything of importance with Sam – even after he knew Sam was lying to him. He shared the ugliest truths about himself with Sam, without making any excuses for them(and I'd say 30 years of torture could be seen as a HUGE mitigating factor).
How was Dean rewarded? Within 2 episodes Sam was back to more lies, more sneaking around, keeping important information from him.
But this is the Dean that Sam said he found so bossy and controlling it pushed him to take off after Ruby.
I understand your point. 🙂
"… unlike a lot of fans who only see what they want to see(Sam the eternal victim, Dean the horrible tyrant… "
Or unlike a lot of fans who see only St. Dean, his Holiness who-never-does-wrong and refuse to see anything else. Sure Sam made mistakes, lied, didn't share a lot with Dean last year. He had his reasons for doing so, just as Dean had his reason for wanting to chop Sam up with an axe and punch him in the face numerous times, not to mention all the wisecracks.
But, on this show, with the fans, miles vary. Everyone sees what they want. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, really. The writers are going to write what they want and we can fight until the end of time, the truth is the show is going to go how it's going to go. If it ends with Sam being a snot-nosed bratty brother, people can say "I told you so" and go on with their lives.
"just as Dean had his reason for wanting to chop Sam up with an axe and punch him in the face numerous times, not to mention all the wisecracks."
Well, to be fair, Dean was under the influence of the siren when he wanted to "chop Sam up with an axe." If Sam had the axe in his hand, he would have tried to chop up Dean with it. The siren's venom drove ALL of it's victim's to kill. It's just in the case of Sam and Dean, the siren also pushed them to tell the truth.
And let's not forget that Sam tried to strangle Dean to death. As we now know, Sam didn't need the feather to fly, so the demon blood wasn't an influence — it was merely a ruse by Ruby to manipulate Sam.
Both boys have punched each other in the face. I don't think either is right to do it, however.
Dean wisecracks and Sam pulls his exasperated bitch face. That's their shtick.
"But, on this show, with the fans, miles vary. Everyone sees what they want. "
Apparently so… "St. Dean"? Give me a break.
"Apparently so… "St. Dean"? Give me a break."
Heh.
"St. Dean" – yes. Check around other forums. That's exactly how he's referred to. I read a quote a couple of weeks ago that said "He's never done anything wrong, Sam is a bastard and should die." And about 35 or so people agreed. So that's where I got the St. Dean reference.
Riiiiiight. 😉
I see by your rating you are a master debater. I've signed up and look forward to debating you in the future. Heh.
I saw it too. Sad commentary, isn't it?
"just as Dean had his reason for wanting to chop Sam up with an axe and punch him in the face numerous times, not to mention all the wisecracks."
Well, to be fair, Dean was under the influence of the siren when he wanted to "chop Sam up with an axe." If Sam had the axe in his hand, he would have tried to chop up Dean with it. The siren's venom drove ALL of it's victim's to kill. It's just in the case of Sam and Dean, the siren also pushed them to tell the truth.
And let's not forget that Sam tried to strangle Dean to death. As we now know, Sam didn't need the feather to fly, so the demon blood wasn't an influence — it was merely a ruse by Ruby to manipulate Sam.
Both boys have punched each other in the face. I don't think either is right to do it, however.
Dean wisecracks and Sam pulls his disapproving bitch face. That's their shtick.
"But, on this show, with the fans, miles vary. Everyone sees what they want. "
Apparently so… "St. Dean"? Give me a break.
You're so true. Now I get it. The reason why Sam is so hated by many so-called fans is that he sinned against Saint Dean. This is a mortal sin and a capital crime so he surely deserves to die a horrible death. Funny is that Saint Dean himself is willing to forgive his sinner brother but his worshippers won't let go. Because these people are not Show fans at all. They're Dean/Jensen worshippers. It's sad because Jensen is a gifted actor and a fine person and deserves better than this sick devotion. I don't think he wants it either.
As for mysef, I stick with this horrible Sam character. I'm not blind to his faults and flaws, but I can still appreciate him and see his merits. Because to make mistakes is so very human and no one is less of a hero because he or she is flawed. And to Jared's credit, I have to say that it's very brave of him to play the unsympathetic character when it's so much easier to be liked if you're the immaculate hero of the story.
AMEN!!! You are right, Jensen and Jared are best buddies and probably couldn't care less about the flap concerning their characters and the "worship" of them (Jensen especially).
As to the characters, yes, of course Sam is flawed. I don't think anyone denies that. Season 4 anyone? That who season is nothing but flawed for both Sam and Dean.
AMEN!!! You are right, Jensen and Jared are best buddies and probably couldn't care less about the flap concerning their characters and the "worship" of them (Jensen especially).
As to the characters, yes, of course Sam is flawed. I don't think anyone denies that. Season 4 anyone? That whole season is nothing but flawed for both Sam and Dean.
Hi Natalia
No, no one denies that Sam is flawed. What I mean is that people just exaggerate his faults, making him seem the lowest creature on earth. As if he were the only one who failed. Like you just said, they're both flawed and they're both trying to make it right.
Andrea – Yes! Sorry, I understood your point. 🙂 And yes, his faults are exaggerated a thousand times over!!
The writing wasn't that great but Dean at least was consistent for me. He's still angry and scared and just like in S2/S3/S4, he puts on an overly-Dean Dean front that comes off as obnoxiousness at some points. (Remember Fresh Blood?) The one thing saving grace of this one .is that it came off as awkward because it IS awkward. Sam and Dean both approached the hunt like they did in S1 and Sam was first to realize that their partnership just didn't work that way.
Getting away with Ruby because of Dean isn't the only reason, or the best one, but it did bring out an underlying problem that has been there since mid-S2 maybe. Dean acknowledged it, just as Sam acknowledged that it was his fault that he'd made such a mess.
I'm proud of both of them at the end, mostly because I'm so happy they're talking to one another! And slicing off heads, that's my favorite part. Next week hopefully Dean will get to make some monster mincemeat.
Wow lots of comments and lots of discussion! I like that and I don't mind people who disagree cause it makes me take another look as well and rethink some things.I think the whole line about 'going off with Ruby' just wasn't written well to convey what they wanted it to. If Sam had said 'the reason I went back to following Ruby was because I wanted to get away from you'. It would have made more sense.
I agree that the writers do create very human and flawed characters and that is what makes Sam and Dean Winchester so compelling to watch. Both actors are top notch and deserve recognition for the work they do and they must be doing their jobs right if we as the viewers and also the fans are reacting to them with such passionate feelings and views and in some cases such extreme polarization and loyalty to a given character. So thanks to all of you for sharing your views on my commentary. I appreciate it and look forward to sharing the next episode with you.
Also wanted to add this little bit in my other comment but the system told me it was too long LOL.
At comic con in 2008 Jared had told myself and the other reporters at that round table that we were going to be seeing a scene in a season 4 episode where Sam confronts Dean about his bossy attitude. It was suppose to happen right after the scene in the restaurant where the meet the demon posssed waitress. Once outside Dean says something to the effect 'well now the smarter older brother is back" and Sam was to take umbrage at that and say something to Dean. Jared said we were going to see Sam addressing this issue with Dean coming back and wanting to step back into being 'the boss'. Yet that scene never happened in the episode and it seems like maybe the writers decided not to address it which I think it would have made more sense to do it then.
That would have made sense then, wouldn't it? But then Dean had just returned from hell; maybe the writers decided it was best for Sam to keep his mouth shut and just keep sneaking around…..although when all was said and done, Sam was the "bad guy" anyway, so what difference did it make? LOL
LOL replying to myself but what I what I mean was if Sam had said the line in such a way that reflected that he HAD stopped following Ruby for a bit when Dean came back because he was respecting Dean's wishes but then found Dean treating him like a kid and that drove Sam back to Ruby.
But the way it came out just didn't convey that. But maybe Dean understood that is what Sam was saying and that's why he apologized and understood.
I am sitting here reading all these comments by everyone and I am thinking geez these are 2 characters in a TV show…how can they cause so much controversy.
Don't get me wrong, I love me some Supernatural, and I love Dean & Sam, and I love Jensen and Jared…especially Jared. I look at him and I just turn to mush! But it blows my mind how people actually invest so much time and get so heated over 2 fictional characters. This site isn't bad with the Samgirl & Deangirl arguments but there are definitelly ones out there that are. And it makes me wonder if fandom of other TV shows is like this or is Supernatural the exception?!
I can only speak for myself and I understand that some people are perfectly content to watch a show, enjoy the story and move on. But as a creative person who admires good storytelling told on screen through talented actors, I enjoy the way the episodes and the characters are so thought provoking and how the creativity of the show and the actors resonates within me and sparks my own creativeness. From my perspective, all of us have real lives with families, jobs, friends and situations we can't always vent our frustrations about. Having Sam and Dean's fictional lives to discuss, to hash out and speculate on can be a very good release valve as long as we remember to keep it about the characters and their situations and not resort to personal attacks.
So yes, Supernatural fandom and its viewers like myself are passionate about the show and the characters. It gives us an outlet and it also can create lasting, solid friendships with like minded others. Sounds good to me!
I absolutely don't know if Supernatural is the one show that bring so much passion but I have to admit I am STUNNED by the reactions I've read there and here because of the episode . Even a little frightened , it's hardly understandable …
I've gotta say, I think the problem with the episode (and the way they've handled Sam and Dean in general) is that Kripke & the writers are writing solely for the crazy fangirls on TWoP. Almost every word of both boys' speeches came, verbatim, from that board. And the opinions on that board are just that, opinions – they don't exact fit into cannon or go along with past characterization. The writers basically made fanwank cannon, instead of telling the story they had already created. Lazy, lazy writing.
I wish the Supernatural team would stop catering to TWoP fanwank. The show would be so much better if they came up with their own material.
The episode was boring, and the Gandhi, the Paris Hilton and the “little bastard” stuff were extremely stupid.
About contradictions with previous episodes, I dont see them. Sam started using his mojo as a way to escape from the torture of knowing that his brother was being tortured in hell; but once Dean came back, he continued practicing his powers, "AMONG OTHER REASONS" because of the normal sense of freedom he must have experienced while dean was dead.
Since we didn’t have Sam’s POV, for many people it was “obvious” that "among other reasons", Sam did what he did because of Dean´s authoritarian personality (don’t blame me, Kripke portrayed Dean as a bossy, authoritarian brother since season 1). It was “obvious” because of human nature: in real life people under repression end up escaping from those that control them.
Anyway, Sam said "among other reasons", so I’m still expecting my favorite reason.
Ps. Please, excuse any spelling or grammar mistake, English is not my first language.
I do have to agree with most of you, especially with Lauren VL, that wrote that Sam is acting like a spoiled brat placing all the blame in Dean for being bossy, when Dean has done nothing more than worry about him and protect him. Dean has his wisecracks and in a way was responsible too for jumpstarting the apocalypse, but to his defense he did not know that his actions in hell would have repercussions in the land of the living, he literally sacrifice everything for his family. Sam, on the other hand, did know that what he was doing with Ruby was wrong, that drinking blood was wrong, why keep it a secret if it’s so damn great? I think that Sam, just like Dean did, needs to acknowledge his own faults and to a greater extent take responsibility for his actions and quit placing the blame on his brother for all the mistakes he has made. Despite Dean's bossiness, it all boils down to the fact that Sam did choose a demon over his brother and tried to kill him, without the possible excuse of saying, hey sorry I was possessed.